Who Is Walter?

Stories of WWII resistance, inspired by a familiar hero. An “Inspired by Yugoslavia” fragment.

With Nicolas Moll (Wer Ist Walter?).

Listen: “Who Is Walter?” (Episode #105)

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Ad-free version of “Who Is Walter?” (Episode #105).

Transcript: “Who Is Walter?” (Episode #105)

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PETER KORCHNAK: This Fragment episode of Remembering Yugoslavia is brought to you by Yugoblok. 

Yugoblok is a member-supported global community, social network, and information resource for all ex-Yugoslavs, post-Yugoslavs, yugodiasporans, yugophiles, and the yugocurious. It’s the new home of this podcast, it’s articles, it’s translations, it’s newsletters, it’s events, it’s a shop—it’s all Yugoslavia, all the time. Visit Yugoblok.com to explore and join today.

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PETER KORCHNAK: This is Remembering Yugoslavia, the Yugoblok show exploring the memory of a country that no longer exists. I’m your curator, Peter Korchnak.

The country of Yugoslavia may no longer appear on any physical maps, but it remains on many people’s mental maps and it inspires their creativity. I feature such people and their creations in the Inspired by Yugoslavia series. 

Today on Inspired by Yugoslavia we’re going to talk about a bigger project involving a number of people but still very much rooted in the former country and its narrative. 

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NICOLAS MOLL: The idea was to make international research and project on the topic of resistance against Nazism, fascism, occupation, and collaboration during the Second World War in Europe. 

PETER KORCHNAK: Nicolas Moll is a Belgian-born independent scholar and practitioner in Sarajevo and the coordinator of the project Wer Ist Walter? (or, Who Is Walter?).

Wer ist Walter? “gathers 100 stories about resistance against Nazism, fascism, occupation, and collaboration during World War II, especially from Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, France and Germany, with the aim to stimulate curiosity and reflection and to deepen knowledge,” according to the project website. “The focus on the Yugoslav space is especially important to us, because the resistance was here particularly strong and because the (post-)Yugoslav space is often forgotten or neglected in discussions about European history and memories.” 

NICOLAS MOLL: If you look at this topic in a international perspective, it’s true that resistance is often dealt with only in a national perspective. So people in former Yugoslavia might know what happened in Yugoslavia, people in France might know what’s happened in France, but it’s very often not known what happened in other European countries. And we realized also that especially the Yugoslav resistance against occupation, fascism during Second World War is very badly known in the rest of Europe, and so actually it was also more general observation: very often when we talk today about European history or European memory, southeastern Europe and especially the Yugoslav and ex-Yugoslav space are neglected or forgotten.

If we really take seriously the term of European history and European memory, it is absolutely crucial to include the history of Yugoslavia and in this case of the Second World War and of the antifascist resistance here. 

PETER KORCHNAK: Organizations from four countries participated in the project funded by a German foundation, including the History Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Sarajevo, Jasenovac Memorial in Croatia, and one outfit each from Germany and France.

The stories are collected on an educational website which can be found at weristwalter.eu. An edited book features 33 essays covering international perspectives on wartime resistance in Europe. The book is available for free at the website.

And the exhibition “Wer ist Walter? Topography of antifascist resistance in Bosnia and Herzegovina, 1941-1945” at the History Museum of Bosnia-Herzegovina culminated the two-year project in summer 2024.* 

As you heard way back in Episode 9, “Das Ist Museum,” the History Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina was created in 1945 as the Museum of the Revolution with the goal of commemorating and celebrating the People’s Liberation Struggle and the Yugoslav Partisans victory in World War Two. With Bosnia and Herzegovina’s independence the museum was renamed and its focus changed.

NICOLAS MOLL: One of the results of this project has been now, that since the first time, since 30 years, actually, there is, again, a permanent exhibition at the History Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina on [the] Second World War and, more especially, on the antifascist resistance led by the Partisans during this time.

PETER KORCHNAK: Like every other Museum of the Revolution in Yugoslavia, the one in Sarajevo focused on the People’s Liberation Struggle. Wer Ist Walter? aimed to tell the story of the resistance differently.*

[* Editorial note: The History Museum, in addition to launching the idea and providing the space, led the development and was the principal organizer of the new permanent exhibition.]

NICOLAS MOLL: So it was the idea, yes, how can we deal again with this topic, which is, of course, a very, very important topic, but do it in a different way when it was done during socialist Yugoslavia.

The former permanent exhibition was very much focusing on the role of the Communist Party, and it was very much focusing on the importance of the battles, the so-called Seven Enemy Offensives, and while other things were not talked about, for example, also crimes that Partisans committed, especially at the end of the war in May 1945. 

So we wanted to have another approach. So we wanted to see what is the characteristic for the Partisans’ resistance in Bosnia-Herzegovina and in former Yugoslavia. We talk about armed resistance, but not by enumerating the battles. Actually, we talk only about one battle as an example how forests and mountains were influencing battlefields and warfare, but we talk about questions: Where did Partisans get their weapons from? How come that within four years, from 1941 to 1945, Partisans became the strongest resistance force in Europe, from some 1,000 guerrilla fighters to 800,000 soldiers in the regular army in 1945? How did Partisans succeed to include people from all different groups and also so many women? 

When we talk, for example, about ‘45 we mention there that Partisans in after, at the end of the liberation committed crimes. 

We tried also to put it also in the European context, to better understand what were specificities and also similarities of that. Another difference was, for example, when we in our book, we have one chapters about gray zones between resistance and collaboration. So there’s one article dedicated also to the Chetniks and how they, from initially anti-occupation force, became more and more collaboration force with with the occupiers.

PETER KORCHNAK: The project has also entailed a closing conference, various workshops, and you can also find “Wer ist Walter?” on social media, Facebook, Instagram, and X. 

The title “Wer ist Walter?” is a double reference. One, Walter was the nick and codename of Vladimir Perić, one of the leaders of the antifascist resistance in Sarajevo during World War II. 

NICOLAS MOLL: The real historical Vladimir Perić died in the night of the liberation of Sarajevo on fifth-sixth of April ‘45 so he was already declared people heroes in Yugoslavia after this. But it’s especially this movie in 1972, which gave him specific iconic status. 

So everybody in Sarajevo and in Bosnia-Herzegovina and also in Yugoslavia knows who Walter is. But at the same time, if you ask people in Western Europe, most of them have never heard about him. So for us, the question, “Wer is Walter?” was symbolic about that often don’t know about people from other countries. But at the same time, also, even if you would ask people today in Sarajevo more details about Walter, they would probably only refer to the movie, which is, of course, not the documentary but a fiction movie, but would probably not know much about the historical figure. 

PETER KORCHNAK: The line “Wer Ist Walter? comes from the 1972 movie Valter Brani Sarajevo (Walter Defends Sarajevo) where two Nazi officers discuss the matter at the fortress overlooking the city.

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PETER KORCHNAK: “Interesting, I’ve been looking for Walter ever since I arrived in Sarajevo. Now that I must leave, I know who he is.” 

“Do you know who Walter is? Tell me his name immediately.” 

“I will show you.”

“Do you see this city?”

“That is Walter.”

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NICOLAS MOLL: This was, of course, promoting the idea that everybody in Sarajevo was Walter, that Walter was a collective symbol, resistance was everywhere. What is not really historically accurately. I mean, actually, the resistance movement in Sarajevo itself was rather small. It existed, and there have been, of course, many, a lot of collaboration also. 

So we wanted, instead, to raise a question. Wer is Walter? So who have been the Walters? How much do we know about them? And formulated, really, as a research questions also, so that with we ask questions, yeah, and about these, this history and all these persons who tried to fight against fascism and Nazi occupation.

PETER KORCHNAK: And by the way, there is in Sarajevo a small private museum dedicated to the movie. I’m told a huge portion of visitors are from China, where the movie was popular in the 1970s.

NICOLAS MOLL: It shows indeed, how the legend of Walter is present and how important was the movie to build up this legend. The film is not very much known outside of Yugoslavia with the exception of China.

PETER KORCHNAK: At any rate—

NICOLAS MOLL: The resistance against fascism was absolutely dominating historiographic topic and also public topic in the 50s, 60s, 70s. 

PETER KORCHNAK: The so-called People’s or National Liberation Struggle was one of the ideological and legitimacy pillars of the Yugoslav communist regime, promoted and perpetuate in the official discourse, books, school textbooks, monuments, museums, as well as Partisan films like Valter Brani Sarajevo.

NICOLAS MOLL: With the breakup of Yugoslavia, the focus, the interest, changed totally. So what was dominating before, the narrative about the Partisans became attacked, or it was something which was instrumentalized or which was neglected in different ways. So it’s true, when you look today at different follower countries of Yugoslavia, it is not a very trendy topic anymore. I mean, on the contrary, I mean in times of nationalism, the Partisans’ resistance as a multinational resistance, and also as a Communist-led resistance, is of course, not matching the needs of current nationalist trends. 

This is a neglected topic, but it’s often also instrumentalized topic. For example, when we look in at Serbia, but we can also find it in other ex-Yugoslav countries, where there’s since many years now, the talk about the second antifascist resistance, and the attempt to put the Chetniks on the same level as the Partisans.

And on the other hand, there’s also this demonization of the Partisans, that Partisans are seen only through the lens of crimes they have committed. 

So the idea was to give a more appropriate picture and interpretation again of the Partisans, which again, would not be a repetition of what was the narrative in socialist Yugoslavia, but would try to give a new approach of this part of history in Second World War in former Yugoslavia.

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PETER KORCHNAK: That’s all for this Remembering Yugoslavia Fragment, thank you for listening. 

All guests’ opinions expressed are solely their own; unless otherwise noted they do not express, reflect, or represent the views or opinions of any third party, including myself. 

Find additional information, sources, embeds, links, photos, and the transcript of this episode at Yugoblok.com/Podcasts. And while you’re there, join Yugoblok as a member to get access to even more podcast stuff and much much more. 

Outro music courtesy of Robert Petrić. Additional music by Sticky Keys.

I am Peter Korchňak. 

Smrt fašizmu!

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